DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:04:

sfryers wrote on 2024-11-16, 17:36:

MSCDEX doesn't need you to tell it what drive letter your CD-ROM is going to use, it'll just take the next available letter that's not being used by your hard drives. Use MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL to specify the device name. The /E parameter has a different purpose- it tells MSCDEX to use expanded memory.

Oh. I thought I had to specify what my drive letter is, which in my case is E:?

You can specify the drive letter manually, but you don't need to if you're happy with the default setting- ie. following directly after your hard drives. If you did want to specify, for example, that MSCDEX should use drive letter H: for your CD-ROM, you can do this with the command MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL /L:H

sfryers wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:35:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:04:

sfryers wrote on 2024-11-16, 17:36:

MSCDEX doesn't need you to tell it what drive letter your CD-ROM is going to use, it'll just take the next available letter that's not being used by your hard drives. Use MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL to specify the device name. The /E parameter has a different purpose- it tells MSCDEX to use expanded memory.

Oh. I thought I had to specify what my drive letter is, which in my case is E:?

You can specify the drive letter manually, but you don't need to if you're happy with the default setting- ie. following directly after your hard drives. If you did want to specify, for example, that MSCDEX should use drive letter H: for your CD-ROM, you can do this with the command MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL /L:H

Okay, thanks. 😀 I might be onto something anyway. I accidentally left my boot disk in on restart and let it go through the procedure and it mentioned that the CD drive letter is F: I *think* it may have configured the drive and the mouse for DOS, but I need to check.

It worked! The boot disk configured the CD drive! It recognises E:!

Now to try and install/play Simon 1 in DOS! 😀

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:03:

What would I need to do exactly? Copy these into the files I’ve set up? And then modify them? Or install these devices in DOS using the boot disk?

Step one, boot your computer on that floppy disk and see if your CD drive is initialized and works properly. A boot disk is a disk you're meant to boot from, bypassing any OS or specific configuration you currently have. If your CD drive works after booting from the boot disk, you'll have made a huge troubleshooting step confirming everything is right with your hardware and you can focus on properly configuring your "main" DOS/Win98 environment. But that's step two. Focus on step one for now.

EDIT: there you go. I love that you "accidentally" left the boot disk in when that was exactly what I was asking you to do xD
your boot disk will not initialize your soundcard and other stuff. It's a basic setup, but it includes CD rom initialization so that was a good test for you. Now you should see how autoexec.bat and config.sys are done on the boot disk in regards to CD initialization and you can reproduce it in your main HDD files so you don't need the bootdisk anymore (It needs two things - The DEVICE declaration in config.sys then calling MSCDEX in autoexec.bat)

Boohyaka wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:42:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:03:

What would I need to do exactly? Copy these into the files I’ve set up? And then modify them? Or install these devices in DOS using the boot disk?

Step one, boot your computer on that floppy disk and see if your CD drive is initialized and works properly. A boot disk is a disk you're meant to boot from, bypassing any OS or specific configuration you currently have. If your CD drive works after booting from the boot disk, you'll have made a huge troubleshooting step confirming everything is right with your hardware and you can focus on properly configuring your "main" DOS/Win98 environment. But that's step two. Focus on step one for now.

EDIT: there you go. I love that you "accidentally" left the boot disk in when that was exactly what I was asking you to do xD

Hahaha 😂

A happy accident. :p

Okay, next set of problems…

Firstly, it won’t let me install to the D drive and says this:

It installs to the C drive though.

Second - every time I try to load the game, it says this:

don't try to run it from the win98 bootdisk...as said it's a minimal environment, the sole purpose of that test was to confirm there was nothing wrong with your CD drive under DOS.

Check this and watch the video: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ms-dos-mode-super-easy.html

Another issue to solve, too - getting my onboard sound to work. I’m not sure if the boot disk will help with this as well…? At any rate, I downloaded the drivers for my onboard sound, which has better GM support, and particularly for the Windows version of Simon 1. But it doesn’t look like I can use it in DOS for Doom or Duke 3D.

Boohyaka wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:59:

don't try to run it from the win98 bootdisk...as said it's a minimal environment, the sole purpose of that test was to confirm there was nothing wrong with your CD drive under DOS.

Check this and watch the video: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ms-dos-mode-super-easy.html

Hey thanks for the link. I’ll give that a read and watch after having tea. 😁

Whilst the Windows 98 boot floppy is pretty effective at configuring optical drives, its only real purpose is to do just that in order to allow the main CD-ROM based installer to run. The boot floppy doesn't attempt to load memory management or mouse drivers. You've proven that your CD drive does work in DOS, but I think you were almost there with the config.sys and autoexec.bat files on your C: drive.

Boohyaka wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:59:

don't try to run it from the win98 bootdisk...as said it's a minimal environment, the sole purpose of that test was to confirm there was nothing wrong with your CD drive under DOS.

Check this and watch the video: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ms-dos-mode-super-easy.html

Oh. I wasn’t trying to run the game via the boot disk; that was in DOS.

sfryers wrote on 2024-11-16, 19:16:

Whilst the Windows 98 boot floppy is pretty effective at configuring optical drives, its only real purpose is to do just that in order to allow the main CD-ROM based installer to run. The boot floppy doesn't attempt to load memory management or mouse drivers. You've proven that your CD drive does work in DOS, but I think you were almost there with the config.sys and autoexec.bat files on your C: drive.

So I take it it wouldn’t be any use at configuring sound cards/onboard sound then?

Mmmh you are still missing very basic puzzle pieces of understanding what you are currently doing...but no problem, learning is fun. I would still recommend watching Phil's video, that may help you figure out some of the stuff.

The boot disk boots in DOS, but a DOS configured from the floppy and its config.sys and autoexec.bat, bypassing whatever is on your hard-drive. That's all it does. As said by sfryers the true purpose of the bootdisk is to boot a minimal DOS environment that initializes your CD drive so you could run the Win98 official setup that was provided on a CD. Think about a brand new computer and blank HDD you just purchased from the computer store and assembled yourself, the Win98 bootdisk would allow you to run the installer because otherwise there would natively be nothing to let you boot off the CD directly back in those days.

I asked you to test the bootdisk, again, just to rule out any hardware problem and confirming your CD drive is fine. The test is successful, so you can now focus on properly configuring your environment off your C: drive. I never meant for you to try and run Simon off the boot disk, that was just a troubleshooting step.

EDIT: What's your motherboard and onboard sound? It's very, very probable that you won't be able to get sound in true DOS from it.

Boohyaka wrote on 2024-11-16, 19:34:

Mmmh you are still missing very basic puzzle pieces of understanding what you are currently doing...but no problem, learning is […]
Show full quote

Mmmh you are still missing very basic puzzle pieces of understanding what you are currently doing...but no problem, learning is fun. I would still recommend watching Phil's video, that may help you figure out some of the stuff.

The boot disk boots in DOS, but a DOS configured from the floppy and its config.sys and autoexec.bat, bypassing whatever is on your hard-drive. That's all it does. As said by sfryers the true purpose of the bootdisk is to boot a minimal DOS environment that initializes your CD drive so you could run the Win98 official setup that was provided on a CD. Think about a brand new computer and blank HDD you just purchased from the computer store and assembled yourself, the Win98 bootdisk would allow you to run the installer because otherwise there would natively be nothing to let you boot off the CD directly back in those days.

I asked you to test the bootdisk, again, just to rule out any hardware problem and confirming your CD drive is fine. The test is successful, so you can now focus on properly configuring your environment off your C: drive. I never meant for you to try and run Simon off the boot disk, that was just a troubleshooting step.

EDIT: What's your motherboard and onboard sound? It's very, very probable that you won't be able to get sound in true DOS from it.

Ahh, I see. But yes, learning is fun. ^^ As I said above, I didn't boot SImon off the boot disk. After it configured the CD drive etc., I booted back into Windows, put the game CD in, and then restarted into MS-DOS mode. I'd taken the boot disk out by that point. Then I was able to run the setup from the disc whilst in DOS. 😀

The onboard sound is a Creative ES1373. Does an ISA sound card work differently in DOS then?

Mmmh sorry but what you're saying does not make much sense. Booting on the boot disk didn't change anything permanently on your computer...the CD initialization that the boot disk does is only valid as long as you stay in that environment. As soon as you launch Windows and use the restart in MS-DOS mode, you're reinitializing a new DOS environment completely. If it didn't work before the boot disk, there's no reason it worked after the boot disk. You must have made other changes in between.

Ah, an onboard audiopci. Didn't think about that. I have no experience with it, but I suppose you should be able to make its DOS emulation work like the full PCI card. It will give you sound, but its OPL emulation is nothing to write home about, except for a good laugh. If you have an ISA slot, getting a proper ISA soundcard would indeed be preferable if you plan in running stuff in pure DOS mode.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:47:

Firstly, it won’t let me install to the D drive and says this:

Maybe it doesn't recognize HDDs larger than 2 GB.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:47:

Second - every time I try to load the game, it says this:

I suppose the drivers use too much base memory and leave not enough for the game. You'd probably have to use EMM386 then.

[config.sys]

1DOS=HIGH,UMB
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
3DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
4DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS2\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[autoexec.bat]

1LH MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL
2LH C:\DOS2\MOUSE.COM /p4

Boohyaka wrote on 2024-11-16, 20:19:

Mmmh sorry but what you're saying does not make much sense. Booting on the boot disk didn't change anything permanently on your computer...the CD initialization that the boot disk does is only valid as long as you stay in that environment. As soon as you launch Windows and use the restart in MS-DOS mode, you're reinitializing a new DOS environment completely. If it didn't work before the boot disk, there's no reason it worked after the boot disk. You must have made other changes in between.

Ah, an onboard audiopci. Didn't think about that. I have no experience with it, but I suppose you should be able to make its DOS emulation work like the full PCI card. It will give you sound, but its OPL emulation is nothing to write home about, except for a good laugh. If you have an ISA slot, getting a proper ISA soundcard would indeed be preferable if you plan in running stuff in pure DOS mode.

Hmm. I'm not sure then. I noticed the boot disk configure or do something with the CD drive and then once I restarted back into DOS, it recognised the CD drive. Before, when I typed in E:, it didn't recognise the drive. Now it does.

And yes, I have an ISA sound card. The problem is, I prefer GM in a number of my games, such as Simon, but the card doesn't support it, or very well. My onboard sound does though. So until I get around to buying a daughterboard or a Roland SC-55, it seems like that's what I'll use for the time being.

eddman wrote on 2024-11-16, 20:23:

Maybe it doesn't recognize HDDs larger than 2 GB. […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:47:

Firstly, it won’t let me install to the D drive and says this:

Maybe it doesn't recognize HDDs larger than 2 GB.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:47:

Second - every time I try to load the game, it says this:

I suppose the drivers use too much base memory and leave not enough for the game. You'd probably have to use EMM386 then.

[config.sys]

Copy code to clipboard

1DOS=HIGH,UMB
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
3DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
4DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS2\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[autoexec.bat]

Copy code to clipboard

1LH MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL
2LH C:\DOS2\MOUSE.COM /p4

It recognises my C drive though and that has 30GB on it. The D drive is 10GB.

But it could need more memory. I'll try re-enabling EMM386 and try adding that code you suggested a bit later. 😀

Not sure if it’s a false alarm, but after re-enabling EMM386, the Win95/98 version of Simon won’t load. The CD doesn’t boot the game up, running the executable doesn’t do anything, but Runit95 is in the Task Manager, and it causes the whole machine to act up. It struggles to even restart/shutdown the PC. I’ve had to force it to restart.

Second time trying it, it was perfectly fine. So possibly related to something else.

eddman wrote on 2024-11-16, 20:23:

Maybe it doesn't recognize HDDs larger than 2 GB. […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:47:

Firstly, it won’t let me install to the D drive and says this:

Maybe it doesn't recognize HDDs larger than 2 GB.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-16, 18:47:

Second - every time I try to load the game, it says this:

I suppose the drivers use too much base memory and leave not enough for the game. You'd probably have to use EMM386 then.

[config.sys]

Copy code to clipboard

1DOS=HIGH,UMB
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
3DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
4DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS2\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[autoexec.bat]

Copy code to clipboard

1LH MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL
2LH C:\DOS2\MOUSE.COM /p4

Nope. Still no luck. 🙁 The CD drive works with this setup, but I think turning EMM386 back on is preventing it from working even more. I get the same error with both HDD now, C and D.

Before I changed the config and autoexec, this is what they were like. Some elements had been added automatically that weren't there before, possibly due to that boot disk...?

But I have changed those to what you suggested now.

Also, the DOS setup I downloaded from Phil doesn't work as I need to re-modify the config and autoexec again. I got this when I tried it: