mockingbird wrote on 2024-03-31, 18:36:

xtreger wrote on 2024-03-31, 18:26:

I'm getting the following for demo1 and demo2 (max settings, 1280 x 1024 resolution): […]
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I'm getting the following for demo1 and demo2 (max settings, 1280 x 1024 resolution):

1. Asrock 775i65G, C2D E7500 2.93 GHz, (1Gb+1Gb) DDR800 RAM, ATI Radeon X800 XT PE. Demo1: 577 fps, Demo2: 575 fps
2. Asus P5KPL-AM/PS, C2D E8500 3.16 GHz, 2 Gb DDR2800 RAM, ATI Radeon X850 XT PE. Demo1: 500 fps, Demo2: 512 fps

This is really confusing because the 2nd build (on paper) is better than 1st build, yet the 1st build has higher fps. For all other games that I've seen, the 2nd build performs better. Q3A is the only exception for some unknown reason.

Your second system is PCIe, your first is AGP. It's not exactly apples to apples... What are your benchmark parameters in Quake3 for Demo001?

Parameters as in the "System" gettings in the in-game menu? They're all at max and vsync is off. For recording fps, I just typed "timedemo 1" in the console, went to DEMOS and played the demos (fps stats are shown after end of demo in the console). If you didn't mean the system settings, what do you mean by benchmark parameters?

xtreger wrote on 2024-03-31, 18:43:

Parameters as in the "System" gettings in the in-game menu? They're all at max and vsync is off. For recording fps, I just typed "timedemo 1" in the console, went to DEMOS and played the demos (fps stats are shown after end of demo in the console). If you didn't mean the system settings, what do you mean by benchmark parameters?

In the game, which resolution? Is it set to 32 bit texture and 32 bit color depth and triple buffering?

mockingbird wrote on 2024-03-31, 22:00:

xtreger wrote on 2024-03-31, 18:43:

Parameters as in the "System" gettings in the in-game menu? They're all at max and vsync is off. For recording fps, I just typed "timedemo 1" in the console, went to DEMOS and played the demos (fps stats are shown after end of demo in the console). If you didn't mean the system settings, what do you mean by benchmark parameters?

In the game, which resolution? Is it set to 32 bit texture and 32 bit color depth and triple buffering?

Triple buffering isn't an explicit option in the menu settings. I'm attaching a screenshot of all settings that I used for both builds:

https://imgur.com/a/ChtJgjB

Are there some hidden settings that are possibly auto-set by the game and not visible in the menu? Maybe those are auto-set to lenient values for the AGP build?

rcarkk wrote on 2019-05-09, 11:54:

cxm717 wrote:

rcarkk wrote:

Is the card overclocked with those 160/166Mhz settings?

Nope. The card was running stock clocks. Here are some pics of the card https://imgur.com/a/jR9lfNo

Looks like it´s even faster than the Savage 4 Extreme. Rare card.

No, it isn't faster. It is Extreme's clocks indeed. Still faster than more common Pros.

Just ran the Quake III timedemo on my recent purchase of a Gateway Select with an upgraded AMD K6-2 550MHz, 128MB ram, Integrated ATI 3D Rage Pro Turbo 8MB AGP Graphics, 8GB SD to IDE. The only way to upgraded the video on this system is to upgraded to a PCI video card (in my plans!).

Anyways I got a score of a whopping 6.9FPS! Going to run this on my other older systems and see what we can get for scores!

johnvosh wrote on 2026-04-03, 17:42:

Just ran the Quake III timedemo on my recent purchase of a Gateway Select with an upgraded AMD K6-2 550MHz, 128MB ram, Integrated ATI 3D Rage Pro Turbo 8MB AGP Graphics, 8GB SD to IDE. The only way to upgraded the video on this system is to upgraded to a PCI video card (in my plans!).

Anyways I got a score of a whopping 6.9FPS! Going to run this on my other older systems and see what we can get for scores!

If it is 1024x768 resolution, then maybe so low is ok, but mostly its playable up to 800x600 for Rage3, not 1024x768 and more. Default 640x80 resolution is good place to start and Play@R3.
No way you get only 6.9fps from Quake3 and Rage3, its so low that i know it can be a lot better, by changing Driver and ATi Rage Pro OpenGL version. Are you using Win9x OS or newer 2K/XP?
If you gona stay with RagePro 8MB AGP i can test Quake3 and give some improvement tips and ATi Drivers+OpenGL version to use. I usually use GLQuake/Quake2,but i can use Quake3 as well.

marxveix wrote on 2026-04-09, 13:14:

If it is 1024x768 resolution, then maybe so low is ok, but mostly its playable up to 800x600 for Rage3, not 1024x768 and more. D […]
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johnvosh wrote on 2026-04-03, 17:42:

Just ran the Quake III timedemo on my recent purchase of a Gateway Select with an upgraded AMD K6-2 550MHz, 128MB ram, Integrated ATI 3D Rage Pro Turbo 8MB AGP Graphics, 8GB SD to IDE. The only way to upgraded the video on this system is to upgraded to a PCI video card (in my plans!).

Anyways I got a score of a whopping 6.9FPS! Going to run this on my other older systems and see what we can get for scores!

If it is 1024x768 resolution, then maybe so low is ok, but mostly its playable up to 800x600 for Rage3, not 1024x768 and more. Default 640x80 resolution is good place to start and Play@R3.
No way you get only 6.9fps from Quake3 and Rage3, its so low that i know it can be a lot better, by changing Driver and ATi Rage Pro OpenGL version. Are you using Win9x OS or newer 2K/XP?
If you gona stay with RagePro 8MB AGP i can test Quake3 and give some improvement tips and ATi Drivers+OpenGL version to use. I usually use GLQuake/Quake2,but i can use Quake3 as well.

I am just running Quake 3 for the benchmark... Here are the settings and the results I got.... I am not sure what version ATI driver I am using. The ATI control panel says driver 4.13.2655/Advanced desktop utilities version 6.13.2523

looks about right. q3's full of alpha blend (puffs, all 2d, wall textures that have something glowing underneat them, some players themselves, etc), and rage pro is a slow piece of shit that can't alpha blend fast (especially on a k6!!!!) so the 4fps is a completely realistic result. No amount of BEST DRIVER LINK HERE will overcome this fault.

FUN FACT: Q3A's menu background used to animate with a green scrolling slime and a shiny Q3 logo, but all that was taken out in consideration for the Rage Pro sufferers. Rage Pro is the only old 3d chipset that Q3 had to make explicit changes for.

johnvosh wrote on Yesterday, 00:39:

marxveix wrote on 2026-04-09, 13:14:

If it is 1024x768 resolution, then maybe so low is ok, but mostly its playable up to 800x600 for Rage3, not 1024x768 and more. D […]
Show full quote

johnvosh wrote on 2026-04-03, 17:42:

Just ran the Quake III timedemo on my recent purchase of a Gateway Select with an upgraded AMD K6-2 550MHz, 128MB ram, Integrated ATI 3D Rage Pro Turbo 8MB AGP Graphics, 8GB SD to IDE. The only way to upgraded the video on this system is to upgraded to a PCI video card (in my plans!).

Anyways I got a score of a whopping 6.9FPS! Going to run this on my other older systems and see what we can get for scores!

If it is 1024x768 resolution, then maybe so low is ok, but mostly its playable up to 800x600 for Rage3, not 1024x768 and more. Default 640x80 resolution is good place to start and Play@R3.
No way you get only 6.9fps from Quake3 and Rage3, its so low that i know it can be a lot better, by changing Driver and ATi Rage Pro OpenGL version. Are you using Win9x OS or newer 2K/XP?
If you gona stay with RagePro 8MB AGP i can test Quake3 and give some improvement tips and ATi Drivers+OpenGL version to use. I usually use GLQuake/Quake2,but i can use Quake3 as well.

I am just running Quake 3 for the benchmark... Here are the settings and the results I got.... I am not sure what version ATI driver I am using. The ATI control panel says driver 4.13.2655/Advanced desktop utilities version 6.13.2523

Your driver + your OpenGL 1107
Almost latest DirectX8.1 drivers (wme-j5-30-1-b02.exe - 4.13.2655) there. Can you say what fps you get with Vertex lightning + resolution 512x384/640x480x16?

My 5.40x Driver + OpenGL 1073
Quick testing and OpenGL 1073 seems faster and works well with Quake3 and Vertex Lightning. For some other versions Lightmap also works, but less performance.
You are using 32bit colors for 1024x768, Rage Pro / Rage XL cant accelerate anything at 32bit and OpenGL (It should use software mode there or turn back to 16 bit).
Desktop color 16bit high color, ingame used 16bit and Default. Quake3 v1.32 640x480x16 gets 30fps with OpenGL 1073. Added driver with OpenGL1073, i used it. 😀
PC is other of course and if Lightning: Lightmap then there 10fps penalty and its up to 20fps there with unmodified Quake3 and NoOverClock of any kind (Cpu/Vga).
PC: Celeron 533 MMX (Mendocino),RAM 256MB,ATi Rage XL 8MB AGP (Rage XL bit faster, but Rage Pro 8MB AGP should be close), ATi Drivers 5.40.x + OpenGL 1073.

Can you test your driver at Vertex lightning+my driver with the same Vertex lightning settings? Thank you!
Its possible to tweak Quake3, its possible overclock CPU / VGA to get more than 30fps with this old Celeron.
Quake 3 v1.32 640x480x16 (5.40.x Driver with ATi OpenGL 1073 - Screenshot added with Quake3 settings).
timedemo 1
demo four
30fps

Geeze, 30 fps out of Rage3 in Q3 at 640x480? That's seriously impressive. I remember having a hard time getting 30 fps out of the thing in Q1! Granted I was mostly using the Rage Pro as a 2d card for my Voodoo II, but it was fun to tinker with them both (and use the TV out). I'm guessing most of us bailed on the hardware before the drivers actually starting wringing decent performance out of them. Or is this one of those edgecases where the Rage XL actually had a meaningful step up in performance. I know it's much better with filtering on alpha, but I didn't know if throughput was improved as well.

DrAnthony wrote on Yesterday, 19:50:

Geeze, 30 fps out of Rage3 in Q3 at 640x480? That's seriously impressive. I remember having a hard time getting 30 fps out of the thing in Q1! Granted I was mostly using the Rage Pro as a 2d card for my Voodoo II, but it was fun to tinker with them both (and use the TV out). I'm guessing most of us bailed on the hardware before the drivers actually starting wringing decent performance out of them. Or is this one of those edgecases where the Rage XL actually had a meaningful step up in performance. I know it's much better with filtering on alpha, but I didn't know if throughput was improved as well.

Same PC with same settings and ATi Rage Pro 8MB AGP

Quake3 1.32
timedemo 1
demo four
640x480x16 27.6fps
512x384x16 30.2fps

Helps Multitexture with older OpenGL version + must use vertex lightning, otherwise both cards get about ~10fps hit at timedemo.
When Quake3 did release back in 1999, then ATiRagePro was even mentioned in the readme.txt or its htm with no known issues.😀

there is no multitexturing if you use vertex lighting.

marxveix wrote on Today, 06:33:

ATiRagePro was even mentioned in the readme.txt or its htm with no known issues.😀

Rage Pro is the only chipset mentioned in the readme that has a link to a "Improving Performance" section, and that says a lot....

leileilol wrote on Today, 18:10:

Rage Pro is the only chipset mentioned in the readme that has a link to a "Improving Performance" section, and that says a lot....

Cant see nothing totally wrong with it, yes its not fastest on the block, it has its up-s and down-s, but i still like it, because it was my first 3D Accelerator.
ATi was not top player in OpenGL field, more of Direct3D card first, OpenGL came at later date for ATiRagePro, it did take time, but better late than never.