New 3DCIF game to play with? ToCa 1 and Ati Rage II (Cif?)

This ToCa game does not use ati3dcif/ati3dcor.dll,not@cif
I think its Direct3D game, other card options work@R2R3

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Ok i tested lowest Rage2 card that i have with D3D / 3DCIF
Its Rage2+DVD PCI 2MB and 3D resolution 400 x 300 x 16
Default ATi uses 15bit color, 16bit is selected for 3 pictures
Someone can test it for Rage 2 non + cards, i have 2+ / 2c?
2MB and max resolution was 400 x 300x16@these games
If possible use Rage 2+ 4MB card or Rage 2C 4MB or more

Thank you!

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G-Police can be better with AGP cards and first real AGP card from ATi was original ATiRagePRO
ATi Xpert@Play from 1997 is one of my favorite Rage Pro cards and my first Rage Pro AGP card.
https://www.shacknews.com/article/100535/game … t-g-police-1997
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ATI_X … _1997_front.jpg

I had a chance to test with 4 cards:

• Rage II PCI: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xpression-plus
• Rage Pro AGP: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati-xpert-work-agp
• Rage XL PCI: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xl-pci-8mb-sdr
• Rage XL AGP: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati-rage-xl

I tested on a K6-3 400 w/ 256MB ram, L3 cache disabled because it wasn't stable under windows.

I first tested with catalyst 4.3 and then installed the 5.40x2611x3D.7z driver.

I ran the MaxPerf batch file.

I tested 4 programs

• 3d mark 99 @ 800x600x16
• 3d mark 2k @ 1024x768x16
• Quake 2 crusher @ 800x600x16
• Quake 3 demo @ 1024x768x16

If a bench mark produced any unexpected result, I'd run it again to verify the result.

Direct X

• Rage Pro: Very nice improvements in direct 3d. 40-50% =)
• Rage XL was pretty much unchanged. Perhaps these "one ram chip" cards are bandwidth limited or maybe I need to check the driver or the direct X installation.
• Rage II didn't work in Direct 3d using the 5.40x2611x3D driver, but the Cat 4.3 drivers merely produced a slide show of rendering errors, so yeah.

OpenGL

• 20% improvement on Quake 2. Quake 3 took a step backwards in frame rate and image quality, but Quake 3 wasn't going to be playable at 1024x768 on this system with either driver.
• Rage XL also saw a 20% improvement on Quake 2. None of the Quake 3 scores are what I'd call "playable".
• Rage II didn't work with open GL on either driver

douglar wrote on 2025-10-31, 12:24:

I had a chance to test with 4 cards: […]
Show full quote

I had a chance to test with 4 cards:

• Rage II PCI: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xpression-plus
• Rage Pro AGP: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati-xpert-work-agp
• Rage XL PCI: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xl-pci-8mb-sdr
• Rage XL AGP: https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati-rage-xl

I tested on a K6-3 400 w/ 256MB ram, L3 cache disabled because it wasn't stable under windows.

I first tested with catalyst 4.3 and then installed the 5.40x2611x3D.7z driver.

I ran the MaxPerf batch file.

I tested 4 programs

• 3d mark 99 @ 800x600x16
• 3d mark 2k @ 1024x768x16
• Quake 2 crusher @ 800x600x16
• Quake 3 demo @ 1024x768x16

If a bench mark produced any unexpected result, I'd run it again to verify the result.

The attachment Untitled.jpg is no longer available

Direct X

• Rage Pro: Very nice improvements in direct 3d. 40-50% =)
• Rage XL was pretty much unchanged. Perhaps these "one ram chip" cards are bandwidth limited or maybe I need to check the driver or the direct X installation.
• Rage II didn't work in Direct 3d using the 5.40x2611x3D driver, but the Cat 4.3 drivers merely produced a slide show of rendering errors, so yeah.

OpenGL

• 20% improvement on Quake 2. Quake 3 took a step backwards in frame rate and image quality, but Quake 3 wasn't going to be playable at 1024x768 on this system with either driver.
• Rage XL also saw a 20% improvement on Quake 2. None of the Quake 3 scores are what I'd call "playable".
• Rage II didn't work with open GL on either driver

Thank you for your testings! All Quake results are way lower than expected, but then i saw that you use 800 x 600 and 1024 x 768 resolutions.

I have not tested Quake2 or Quake3 higher than 640x480 and all Rage2 cards cant use OpenGL for Win9x.

Even 3DMark scores are bit low, i have tested only 3D Mark 99 Max, i can comment about that at the moment.
My AMD K6II+400 3DMark99@800x600x16 with Rage XL AGP 8MB about 1350 up to 1375 points (all default).
What results you get with 640x480x16 res with Quake2 timedemo 1 and Quake3 640x480x16 if you can try it?

I will test the results with Rage Pro 8MB AGP card with K6-II+, just wait. 😀

Added one old info about monitor refresh rate, 85hz seems to be best for Rage Pro.
For testing i use Default settings,just my Fast or Max OpenGL settings for Rage Pro.

What refresh rate you used for testing?

Thank you!

Wait a minute, your Rage XL PCI card worked with my drivers, can you test 3DCIF game out?

Sorry for asking, but Catalyst 4.3 are from my point of view for Radeon cards and not Rage?
So RageII+ up to Rage XL works and Original RageII does not work, i have no Rage2, just R2+

Quake 3 maybe likes newer OpenGL more and some games need newer OpenGL, than 1091.

1091 is good for older Quake1 and Quake2, Hexen II (older OpenGL). Try v1073 from olders.
https://www.oocities.org/ziyadhosein/rprow98.htm

I have not tested what best suits for Quake3&newer!
Its easy to change OpenGL version with my OpenGLs

ATi Rage 3GL-Win9x.7z
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Tweak … GL-Win9x.7z?w=1
Re: ATi RagePro OpenGL files

Your Rage XL PCI and AGPs are 32bit lower versions, theres comes the lower score. Usually Rage XL 64bit should be quicker than Rage Pro.

Rage XL AGP 8MB 64bit that i use are with 4 memory chips:
Rage XL AGP 109-66700-01 / Rage XL AGP 109-66700-00

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Here are my old Quake2 runs with Quake2 and AMD K6II+400Mhz and 500Mhz / Tweaked and non tweaked
I test them out with Original Rage Pro 8MB AGP as well and Motherboard was MVP3 with 256MB or less Ram.

First OpenGL version that works with SkipFlipWaitIdle is OpenGL 1084, all older versions not gain performance boost from SFWI command. Enable this option only with bilinear disabled + multitexture disabled (both disabled). Quake2 is playable with SkipFlipWaitIdle at the moment.

SkipFlipWaitIdle=1 works, i get 3fps more @ Q2 timedemo 1 demo1.dm2 640x480x16 and also no big keyboard/mouse lag for Quake2 now!

OpenGL 4.11.1091 quick test (does support SkipFlipWaitIdle=1 - enabled @ settings)
~40.5fps without vga overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + tweaked Q2 (k6-II+400@500Mhz)
~37.5fps without vga overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + original Q2 (k6-II+400@500Mhz)
~35.0fps without any overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + tweaked Q2 (k6-II+400)
~33.0fps without any overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + original Q2 (k6-II+400)

OpenGL 4.11.1073 quick test (does not support SkipFlipWaitIdle=1 - enabled @ settings)
~37.5fps without vga overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + tweaked Q2 (k6-II+400@500Mhz)
~34.7fps without vga overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + original Q2 (k6-II+400@500Mhz)
~34,4fps without any overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + tweaked Q2 (k6-II+400)
~32,0fps without any overclock and bilinear and multitexture disabled + original Q2 (k6-II+400)

These benchmarks are without sound, i add soon isa or pci soundcard and i make some Quake2 runs again.
Still SFWI is more experimental, Quake1 is not playable and Quake1 has no or minimal gain over OGL 1073.

OpenGL 4.11.1073 works now normally, like others, something with the chipset drivers did not like it sometimes.
Douglar you can try BencMark also with games, just Max and Fast settings are safe to use and try OpenGL v1073!
Quake3 needs more testing,i have tested more Quake1 / Quake2 from my side, my old Q2 result taken form here
Re: ATi RagePro OpenGL files

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-31, 13:18:

Wait a minute, your Rage XL PCI card worked with my drivers, can you test 3DCIF game out?

Sorry for asking, but Catalyst 4.3 are from my point of view for Radeon cards and not Rage?

I have the original ATI reference board that works on 5v PCI, not the stripped down knockoffs that don't work with 5v PCI.
Yes, it seemed like your drivers work with my Rage XL PCI card.

Good catch. I made a mistake. While I had Catalyst 4.3 installed for Radeon cards, I had these two installed:
mach64 4.35 drivers (1997/11/21) : https://theretroweb.com/drivers/1089
rage 128 5.14 drivers (1999/2/6) : https://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=341

What's the best way to verify what driver is currently in use?

What 3DCIF game would you like me to test?

douglar wrote on 2025-10-31, 17:25:

I have the original ATI reference board that works on 5v PCI, not the stripped down knockoffs that don't work with 5v PCI. Yes, […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-31, 13:18:

Wait a minute, your Rage XL PCI card worked with my drivers, can you test 3DCIF game out?

Sorry for asking, but Catalyst 4.3 are from my point of view for Radeon cards and not Rage?

I have the original ATI reference board that works on 5v PCI, not the stripped down knockoffs that don't work with 5v PCI.
Yes, it seemed like your drivers work with my Rage XL PCI card.

Good catch. I made a mistake. While I had Catalyst 4.3 installed for Radeon cards, I had these two installed:
mach64 4.35 drivers (1997/11/21) : https://theretroweb.com/drivers/1089
rage 128 5.14 drivers (1999/2/6) : https://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=341

What's the best way to verify what driver is currently in use?

What 3DCIF game would you like me to test?

Thank you for the info.

Good to use some ati driver cleaners, but i have countless times sometimes just overwritten drivers, but mostly Rage Pro / XL drivers.
Its good to use clean Win9x install and i have plans to use some image dos tools, i think Symantec Ghost 11.5 is good for Win backups.

Are these Rage XL PCI also 4752 cards? Tomb Raider 1 with ATi patch or Croc 1.0 would be enough with Rage XL PCI.
From Croc 1.0 select Rage II from menu.If menu screen and text is ok and game looks ok, then good news for XL PCI.

Could you make Rage XL PCI bios backup from you card as well, i can send you tools.
Some old info here: Chinese Rage XL PCI mods, improved compatibility and looking for a good overclock.

If possible make some screenshots with Rage XL PCI like i have done with Rage2+ (One post above, before your post)
If 3DCIF works@XLPCI,can i send you 5.40 driver where card info is back (to know model number better with Win9x)

As i member i removed 4752 that is RageXL PCI from 5.40 drivers and latest 5.38 still has it,i can add 4752/4753 back
Even without 3DCIF, my XL PCI card gives black screen@ 5.40 drv, so if the driver works for your LASB41,why not here

Can you give whats written on your Rage XL PCI?

My chinese Rage XL PCI has
Rage XL 215R3LASB41
maybe you have older?
Rage XL 215R3LASB22

From the card pics its Rage XL PCI and 215R3LASB41, like mine.

DXDIAG i have used for checking if card is working and with what driver it uses, if card is there and all ok then 3DCIF.

This is my card https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xl-pci-8mb-sdr

douglar wrote on 2025-11-01, 02:29:

This is my card https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xl-pci-8mb-sdr

Its Rage XL PCI (4752) or ATi Xpert98 PCI (4750) but the 215R3LASB41 chipset is the same like with cheap remade (4752) version
(i dont have your Rage XL PCI card). All 4750 PCI cards should be good for 3DCIF.

I removed 4752 inf from my latest 5.40 driver what you where testing as earlier mentions and my testing with this cut-down and very late (4752) version was not successful with 3DCIF driver.

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Oh only now i looked your link more carefully and if its Rage XL PCI (474D) then its should be 3DCIF compatible, like Rage XL AGP (474D) is.
Also inside ATII9XAD.INF i dont have no RageXL PCI with 474D,only AGP cards have 474D.I wait for your DXDIAG screenshot,take your time.

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Two Rage XL PCI exist, one with B22 and other B41, my eyes have seen only B41/LASB41/215R3LASB41

ATI RAGE XL PCI (B22)
ATI RAGE XL PCI (B41)

https://itpfdoc.hitachi.co.jp/manuals/3020/30 … 0e/DMRC0169.HTM

Added some files from before and added some new files for DOS and made one ATiDOS.zip.
If you know some useful Tool for ATi Mach64/Rage23 cards for DOS, let me know and i add.

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-31, 18:00:

Could you make Rage XL PCI bios backup from you card as well, i can send you tools.
Some old info here: Chinese Rage XL PCI mods, improved compatibility and looking for a good overclock.

I made to copies of the BIOS, one using ATIFLASH 1.0, the other by putting the eeprom in a TL866

Are either of these usable for you?

douglar wrote on Yesterday, 22:38:

I made to copies of the BIOS, one using ATIFLASH 1.0, the other by putting the eeprom in a TL866 […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-31, 18:00:

Could you make Rage XL PCI bios backup from you card as well, i can send you tools.
Some old info here: Chinese Rage XL PCI mods, improved compatibility and looking for a good overclock.

I made to copies of the BIOS, one using ATIFLASH 1.0, the other by putting the eeprom in a TL866

Are either of these usable for you?

The attachment Rage XL PCI BIOS.rar is no longer available

Thanks for the download, i dont know yet, but they are good at least for the same exact card, that you have.

douglar wrote on 2025-11-01, 02:29:

This is my card https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/ati- … -xl-pci-8mb-sdr

If you gona try 3DCIF game someday when you have time with XL PCI, overwrite this file with 5.40@install.
This has naming like 5.38 release with more information (4752) or some other, did not add 474D XLPCI yet.

So far i know that 474D is with AGP card, not PCI:

474c Rage XC
474d Rage XL AGP
474e Rage XC AGP
474f Rage XL
4752 Rage XL (so far not so good luck with 3DCIF)
4753 Rage XC (from its number same as XL 4752)

https://ftp.riken.jp/Linux/kernel/v2.3/patch- … ci_pci.ids.html

marxveix wrote on 51 minutes ago:

If you gona try 3DCIF game someday when you have time with XL PCI, overwrite this file with 5.40@install.
This has naming like 5.38 release with more information (4752) or some other, did not add 474D XLPCI yet.

Is that 3DCIF tech demo still available for download on the web ?