VOGONS


First post, by ruthan

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Introduction
I wanted to give WIndows NT4 a try, i never used it before and when i used it last time, i struggled with missing device manager, not Explorer look tuing and not really know what to run there, there was no 3D acceleration.
Now i did some more deeper testing and research, because i already was quite happy with Windows 2000 capabilities.

There are some old vogons NT4 threads:
Windows NT 4.0
NT 4.0 few questions
NT3.51 Just turned 25 Today! - NT 3.51 related, aimed on server part
NT 4.0 is an excellent option for a Pentium Pro/II class system, and is my OS of choice for games that don't require 9x.
Re: Emulation on Windows NT 4.0 - Emulators on NT4
NT4.0 drivers for SB Live CT4760 - Sound blaster Live - nT4
Best scroll mouse driver for Windows 95 and NT 4.0 - mouse wheel and drivers; HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControl\SetServicesi\8042prt\Parameters - EnableWheelDetection set to 2
anyone gaming with NT 4.0?
PC Game Compatibility List - Dosfreaks NT compatibility list
- i made reduced version of it - only wint NT4,9x and W2000 and with native games only (with small exceptions of virtualization) to be faster, but im sure if source data were up to date..
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XuEF- … dit?usp=sharing

Back i era, i was too young and saw NT running on some high-end workstation with multiple cpus or monitors, but never had a chance to play with it. I never cared much about this meant for business thing, i translated it more as better networking and meant for faster machines to give them some oomph.Funny thing is that only Office 97 is supported and ond WIndows 98 you can use OfficeXP, so its exactly backwards 😀

First important thing is misconception that there has to be something like NT 1, NT 2,NT 3.0 there is not, its just NT4 and it supposed to be Windows 3 successor same as Windows95. There was quite a lot services packs last is 6A, it was supported until 1.1.2005

Testing:
Afte i find out that NT4 is able to use 3D Accelerated graphics at least with 3Dfx Banshee / Voodoo 3 . I setup 86Box(ex PCem) Pentium II 233 + Banshee virtual machine.
I also refreshed my Vmware NT4 virtual machine for something faster to quickly test some programs.

What software is running with NT4 service pack 6A?
There is nice MSFN thread, there is a few mistakes, or i need to install some additional runtimes or copy some dlls to make some these working, but 95% is right. Sometimes is support worse than for Win98, sometimes is better.
https://msfn.org/board/topic/181336-last-vers … -windows-nt-40/
Here is screenshot from DVD image which i made to import data, in most cases there is program version in filename:

The attachment Screenshot 2024-12-07 15.17.29-NT4Programs.png is no longer available

Better console: https://github.com/malxau/yori
Even better ones 4nT 6.01 working - https://4dos.info/v4nt.htm and even better Take command 6.01 from same page working - https://4dos.info/tcmdvers/tcmd601a.exe

2+ cpus +3-4 GB RAM support:
Nice thing about NT, that it was OS for Windows servers too. So it can run multiple cpus and lots of memory out of box. Depends on editions:
- Workstation is limited to 4 2 CPUS, 4 GB RAM
- Server 8 CPUs, 4 GB RAM
- Enterprise edition - 32 CPU and 8 GB with PAE mode same as XP, which enable to run some apps above 4 GB even on 32 bit OS. Back in time it was mostly for Databases, but now we can use it for other things if needed.
Win9x are limited to 1 CPU unless programs is specifically build with some Rloews libraries and RAM is limited by hack to ~1125 MBR and more with RLoew far from 100% compatible.. There is still limit 2 GB for 32 bit process of course.
NT4 in other hand has all this out of box really working it same way as later in Windows 2000 a WinXP which are used on NT4 / 2000 codebase, on quite unstable Win9x /ME Codebase.
I expected that second core would be loaded very lightly and most of apps will run on 1 core, but it works quite well and if you enable to run explorer processes in separate threads in make OS much more responsive than in Win9x, also Task manager is much better.
It can run old version of Vmware Workstation with WIndows 98 cant, quite a new version of Qemu.
You can also run NT on other cpus like Alphas etc, but its out of score of this analysis aimed on gaming.
chinny22: "just like Windows 2000 it doesn't understand CPU's with more then 1 core, although I actually like this fact and use it to "cheat" to max out the CPU count of my server builds."
RuThaN: So you have to set Vmware to multiple physical CPUS and 1 core. I have to test it, if its really the case. Afaik Virtual box has not such settings, im not sure it by default for NT4 emulate more physical CPUs.
It would also nice if some hack to run NT4 on multicore machine would exists. 86Box is so far limited to single CPU, if im not wrong, first machine which used multicore from Intel for normal mortals were, if not wrong Pentium Pro.

fosterwj03: You don't need a hack to get NT 4 (or 3.5x for that matter) working with modern multicore CPUs. You do need a motherboard BIOS compatible with the MPS standard and at least Service Pack 3. Omores' Youtube videos explain the MPS issue. My NT4 retro rocket has a Core i7-2600k, 4GB RAM, Intel Q67 motherboard, Via-based PCIE USB 1.1/2.0, a PCI RTL8139 network card, Sound Blaster Live! Value, and a PCIE GeForce 6800 GS.
I use NT4 Server which recognizes all four physical cores (NT 4 and earlier can't support hyperthreading due to a requirement to support ACPI). Works great when I install NT4 Server with SP6 streamlined into the installation CD.
I've run NT4 on my Xeon 1275v2 (4-core Ivy Bridge) and B75 chipset as well, but the GeForce 6800 GS drivers crash that configuration for some reason.

Enable 2+ cores after you already install 1 cpu version of NT4:
The majority people probably forget that such old OS could support multiple physical cpus cores when they setup Virtual machine HW.
Because adding cpu to servers later, so quite normal NT4 support it, most easy is simply install NT4 on multicore virtual machine (it has to be same service pack and updates installed!) and copy 5 or 6 files from multicore machine to 1 core and after you have to edit C:\boot.ini to start multicore hal.dll and ntkernel, you have to rename these 2 files if you want to keep nice possibility to boot in 1 or multicore modes. List of files in some tutorials differs and just copy what is hinted, try to boot and maybe be asked for few more files (all these you can overwrite just hal.dll and kenel has to have 2 version to keep 1 cpu mode still enabled).

Here is example:

- i kept original file unchanged just added 2 at the start
[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="by RuThaN Windows NT Workstation Version 4.00 2+ CPUs" /kernel=ntkrnlmp.exe /hal=halmps.dll
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="by RuThaN Windows NT Workstation Version 4.00 1 CPU" /kernel=ntoskrnl.exe /hal=hal.dll
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows NT Workstation Version 4.00 1 CPU Original entry"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows NT Workstation Version 4.00 1 CPU [VGA mode] Safemod Original entry " /basevideo /sos

The attachment Screenshot 2024-11-27 01.03.44-NT4-NumberOfCPUSelection.png is no longer available

[/i]

Installation
Even last vanilla install CD, has some problem with maximal system partion size, it needs to be max 2 (safer) or 4 GB, you resize it later with Partion Magic 8 fine, probably other partition tools like Gparted would fine too.
Of course is best practiseuse at least 2 partitions, one smaller for system and second for Data.

System updates:
https://windowsupdaterestored.com/ Its working fine, may need to update Internet Explorer first, max supported version by NT is IE 6 SP1.

Dos support
Disadvantage of this is not native Dos, there is not fully compatible Virtualization of it - NTVDM (NT Virtual DOS Machine): Windows NT 4.0 includes NTVDM. It supports only 16bit programs, not 32 bit. Otherwise there Dosbox builds for NT4. Some with working Opengl would be nice, they is several Dosbox build floating about it not time to test all of them. DosboxNT4x32 - 0.73 working fine, i only have some sound delay, but it could be some my Creative sound drivers problem.
ntvdmx64 project for 64 bit Windows and its tested on Windows 2003, im did not find something similar for NT4.

3D Gaming - the most important part:
The most important part, well unless you really need to use NT because of some really old development tools (Visual Studio 6.0 is max officially supported nice for Quake/Hexen 2) support or some HW unsupported elsewhere..
NT4 for now only Windows OS with 3D support on modern Windows, which has not working 3D with Vmware or VirtualBox on Windows. You can do it only on Linux with Qemu KVM passthrough.
That is why im using 86Box, its not virtualization its full machine emulation using so far using quite slow Qemu software emulation engine - Tiny Code Generator, im still hoping that someone will make it much faster one day, but its thing which probably only few people on planet understand and noboby else want to touch it. Qemu is more universal SW project which i know, but its quality far from great especially on Windows.

As written above 3Dfx made Glide and OpenGL, not Direct3D, because NT has only support for DirectX 3 and really useful Direct3D came version like 5+.
So far i had not time to test nGlide, Glide to Opengl wrapper it could work with Nvidia (TNT 1+2, maybe early Geforce) a ATI (at least radeon X300/X600 has NT4 drivers) cards, but it would not be great probably because they could made only OpenGL drivers, mayla aimed for some 3D modelling / CADs etc.

Newer DirectX:
There are some packages called DX5 or DX6 unofficial for NT4, but as far i understand these are just few dlls to make some 3D Modeling / Animation / CAD programs to work and they are far from whole DirectX stack.
Update: But there is some contradicting reports about DirectX 6 and its Dxdiag running, so maybe i only need better DirectX package, or there other things a in the play, maybe even 86Box MB+Banshee bugs, or some missing runtimes..

Games compatibility
Big elephant in the room.
Lots of 9x Glide+OpenGL claimed NT compatibility right on the box, major engines Quake/Unreal where ported. Some can be installer on Win9x and sideloaded to bypass that NT is not supported in their installator, but Direct3D only games will not run. That is was expecting scenario, you can read it right away when start to read what NT4 could do.
Showstopper is elsewhere..
- list of glide games - https://www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide/compatibility // nglide site
When i started to test some games which are using OpenGL or GLide for rendering, i found out that they are actually besides of OpenGL and Glide for rendering also using DirectX input or sometimes also Direct Play Networking libraries and in more modern version that in included in Direct3, mostly from DirectX 5/6.. => unless someone will write some wrapper for them or someone backport them into NT4 amount of games playable on NT would be much smaller than it could be. In Theory DirectX 5 is just 1 version above of DirectX3, if im not wrong there never was DirectX4 released (It wass skipped as Windows 9 )
I tried to find what is difference in DirectX 5 input and DIrectX 3 input and found that difference should be small - Force feedback added and few calls, big performance optimizations part we can ignore in these days, problem seems to be maybe only version check and few calls.
- hotfix KB891711 is known to break even software OpenGl, solution is uninstall it or copy WIN32K.SYS dated December, 2004 from KB835732 (you can 7zip it)
source: https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/winnt4.htm#p3

Good thing is that i never saw something like DirectSound error, its possible that i will appear after Direct Input would be solved, but i doubt it and there is EAX to OpenAL wrapper.
DirectSound had more changes,was added whole 3D positional audio, enviroment audio effects and hardware acceleration of sound.

Games compatibility reports:
- list of DX2 to DX 7 games - PCGAMINGWiki - https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Direct3D_2-7_games
- list of OpenGL games - pcgaming wiki - far from complete - https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_OpenGL_games - for NT if im not wrong we are limited to version 1.x
- another OpenGL games list - https://rjkole.com/gamestuff/engines/index.ph … elengine=opengl - not NT4 related by there is release year for every game which helps
- Microsoft Pinball Arcade - according to the readme it needs DX6 - game installed and runs perfectly fine. // Robbbert
- Deus Ex - needs DX7, but you can install it without DX7, and it offers a software renderer, and it works. // Robbbert
- Hitman - also needs DX7, but again I installed the game without DX7. Then I chose the OpenGL renderer, and it works // Robbbert
- Alien vs Predator - needs DX6, game installed ok but refused to start (no message). // Robbbert
- Heretic II - runs fine // Robbbert
- Quake 1 (GLQuake) + Quake 2 demo + Quake 3 demo, Unreal tournament -all ok // RuThaN
- SystemShock 2 will work if you give the installer the /lgntforce switch. // wierd_w
- MDK2 // fosterwj03
- Jedi Knight 2 // fosterwj03
- Return to Castle Wolfenstein // fosterwj03
- Other big Windows compatibility list, im usable to set right filders on present version of this package, i have found shorting through A-Z and complete list working lastly in 2003 version:
https://web.archive.org/web/20041209085038/ht … indowsNT4&idx=0

Switfshader maybe future support, DosFreak hinted, in previous threads that maybe Google swiftshader:
https://github.com/google/swiftshader
can be maybe adapted for NT4 in the future, its from Google, but it was actually bought by Google and source seems to be still free to use and available.
There is some 6 years old thread about it on Windows 98: https://andrewnile.co.uk/blog/swiftshader-on-windows-98/

SoftGPU maybe future support:
Maybe one they it would be added to NT4 too, i found some thread about it:
https://github.com/JHRobotics/mesa9x/issues/2

New .Net compatibility
Only version 1.1 is supported, Windows 98 have 2.0 There is great project which backported .Net net 2.0 + 3.5 to Windows 95 and 3.5 to Windows 98:
https://github.com/itsmattkc/dotnet9x
Details here, its one of best videos which i saw, too much silly acting and drama bundled, but its shows what could be done if you are clever, skilled and first of all stuburt enough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTUMNtKQLl8&a … _channel=MattKC
Runtimes up to Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable and VC++ 6.0 are supported, with old Java.

There is request to make it working with Windows NT 4, it would improve NT4 software capabilities a lot too:
https://github.com/itsmattkc/dotnet9x/issues/7
If you have needed skills maybe you can help with it.

Explorer save view:
This most annoying thing, if you are used to use Windows Explorer and not to do everything in alternative Filemanager like Total Commander (supported), there is not settings to keep configured view. Fix is using TweakUI 1.5 and there is Save explore settings quite hidden on some tab.

Device manager
From NT4 point of view driver is service so all is configured in Service list. There are some BearWindows device manager like utils, but its far from classic Device Manager.

Fat32 compatibility:
Windows NT4 use early NTFS, for FAT32 read and write needed to buy FAT32 from WIn/Sys internals. Its good for sharing data / games partition with Win9x for dual boot. Or you have to install NTFS for WIndows 98, which seems much less reliable.
Partitioning
Norton Partition Magic 8 is working, or you can do it from boot CD of course.

Data transfer to NT machine:
As USB is not working out of box, i never had rock solid Windows sharing networking from DOS to Windows 10, without any issues (and i lowevered security and enabled any compatibility setttings which i have found), suggest you to use classic Winscp 4.1.9 and SSH server with enabled AES128 bit or some other lower security standards, because encryption also means higher CPU usage on client and old CPUs could be quite slow, Windows 10 have option to install OpenSSH server too, just some GUI wizard out of box is missing to you have to edit text file and restarting services and because some stupid security rule you have to edit it with notepad started from cmd (that is actually part of Linux/Unix legacy, which i dislike to see on WIndows its called Windows no terminal / text file Red hell).

Open points:
A) Some utility which would fake Windows version Like Win9x or Windows 2000 for moment of instalation. Would be handy i did quick search a found only utilities doing it through registry edits and its too lowlevel and there was running that even reboot could faile after. Im quite sure that some programs, which claims that NT is not supported, would actually run. So far you can install program on Win 9x / Win2000 machine and sideload it, but if app installs some dll files into system directory you would need Filemon+Regmon or similar tool and it take a bit too much effort, but i really need to run something in NT4, you can try it this way.
B) System does not shutdown, just ends on you can turn it off message, some automatic shutdown hack would be nice. There are some hints online, but they only reset machine not shutdown.
fosterwj03: A Soft Power Off HAL exists for NT4 that provides full shutdown on ATX-based systems, but it's fiddly with which boards it will work. You just need to replace the HAL.DLL for uniprocessor or multiprocessor depending on your system. Here's a link to an article describing the installation process and files you'll need: https://www.zx.net.nz/archives/notes/N00002/
RuThaN: This is good, but there is otherway than fiddle with HALs, it would be even better, i guess that through some ASM command, it should be possible make machine to turn off too, as far is that asm fiddling is not disabled on NT kernel level. If this would be triggered in time, where there is already label, you can turn off machine, there should not be some problem with not proper machine shutdown.
C) Some utility to bypass to need to press CRTL+ALT+DEL to open logon window, i tried some tuporial, but it never worked for me, i only managed to make working automatic logon (TweakUI), which is not nice, because there is not basic password protection.. Yeah, i know you can just reset password, open files in another OS etc.. Same fixed as for Windows 2000 and XP are not working, even on MSFN is unsolved thread for it, maybe it would need some system hack.
d) Make 3d - Direct3D and Opengl working on NT4 with Radeon and Geforce gpus.. It should work, but im failing:
Re: Windows NT4 2024+ setup and summary + WIP overview
There is at least some Anandtech Quake 3 Nvidia benchmark so it should somehow work:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-k … dup,186-18.html // BTW its a slight faster than Windows 98 SE benchmark, so OpenGL on WinNT4 performance should be fine, im not sure but maybe even some games or programs can use multiple cores as bonus.
There a lot of failed stories all over internet, but there are opengl files in all drivers included and there could be some solution.
I made Geforce 2 MX working with Lenovo quadro OpenGL drivers after uninstallation of KB891711 KB.. I need more debugging to check where was a problem.
Matrox millenium and ATI RAGE II are proven to work too for 3d, but they are using some different Opengl MCD model, instead of ICD, nice artictle about them:
https://retro.swarm.cz/nt4-opengl-mini-client … ti-rage-ii-pro/

E) Direct3D to OpenGL wrapper - There is small change that someone will redevelop Direct3D 6+ for NT, even unofficial D3D5 is more placebo that working thing, but its possible to make Direct3D working through D3D to OpenGL wrapper, there are some, but so far i dont find some good one for NT4, but backport them to NT4 seems much easier way than reimplement whole Direct3D.. yeah even there would be problem with DirectSound/ Music and especially DirectInput, but reimplement DirectInput could be feasible, it would be possible, its not performance heavy thing.
There is DXGL for more modern OSes - https://dxgl.org/ with available source, yeah it would need to downgrade OpenGL 2 to 1.x
There some DirectSound wrappers already too - List of DirectSound wrappers
F) Drivers letter assignment - NT4 has special variant of Disk management utility - windisk.exe, where you can assign driver letter, but not works well. First of all you cant change letter for partition where is pagefile, you have move it on other partition before it - its tab - in system panel - as in modern windows, but even after that some changes - require reboot to make change, but problem is that after reboot is drive letter unchanged.. I often had to it multiple times to make change working, but even then, after some change, it returned back to settings, which i dont like. I have tried Paragon HDD manager and Acronis Partition Expect / Suite too, but it often not working too.
So it would be nice to find some tool, which is working everytime - i have found drive letters for optical driver in registry, these you could change in registry fine, but im unable to found same settings for not optical / scsi devices, modern Windows - Win 2000, has settings in this registry path - HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices (you can identify disk by IDs on Win2000, you can change floppy letters there too), but it does not apply for NT.. So registry path is different, disk letter assignment is done by some other unknown way.

Updates - based on feedback, i was this post was meant as Work in progress (credits authors bellow, i just trying to compile main messages and not cripple them too much):

  1. There is some first version was named NT 3.1 (1993) to make it confusing (not 3.11 to make even more messy), after there are NT 3.5 (1994) and 3.5 (1995) and NT4 (1996), but when someone is talking about NT, he/she usually means NT4 it held for long time and got 6 service packs.
  2. There is not MS defragment utility, only 3rd party.
    wierd_w: For a defragmenter, use the free version of ultradefrag: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ultradefrag/ … stable-release/ its at least partly commertial and there much newer version than on Sourceforge, its still in development, afaik without testing, there is free package, or free old version or its otherwise limited, sourceforge does not host some ilegal sw
  3. USB, not officially, there positive reports about using unofficial stack, USB flashdisks are working for sure - https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12083 + https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/8358/ … 0-shell-amp-usb + https://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/usb.htm , if my memory serves USB is not working through Vmware workstation tools package.
    fosterwj03 hinted that only USB 1.1 works correctly: " UHCI (USB 1.1) controllers such as those from Intel and Via. The driver stack supports mice, keyboards, storage devices, and a few select peripherals."'
  4. ISA Plug and Play package is not enabled by default, but it could be enabled. I never needed it because i added Sound Blaster to machine before installation and it install found it, or SB driver package installer found it, im not sure.
  5. Tool to decrease required version of MSi Installer - https://www.masterpackager.com from 3 and 3.5 to 2, not working for 4. // Info from Matrix359
  6. Ntcompatible - programs list compatibility list from 2003 (on newer version of page, i wanst able to se rigth NT4 related filters i you do let me know):
    https://web.archive.org/web/20030821200521/ht … indowsNT4&idx=0
  7. Ntcompatible - programs list compatibility list from 2003 (on newer version of page, i wanst able to se rigth NT4 related filters i you do let me know):
    https://web.archive.org/web/20030821232243/ht … indowsNT4&idx=0
  8. OpenGL / Direct3D / DirectDraw - portable testing utils / benchmakrs collection:
    Details here:
    I have found nice Direct3D / OpenGl / Direct tests from Roy Longbottom - 2005:
    - they support MMX,SSE,SSE2,SSE3 and 3D Now and dual CPUs, they have also 64bit versions.
    - OpenGL: http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/opengl%20results.htm
    - DirectD3: http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/direct3d%20results.htm
    - DirectDraw -http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/directdraw%20results.htm
    I wrote to Roy to thanks him, he is now 90 (2025), he is now out of business, but he is fine to use all its tools for free, even for business purposes and source codes for the most of them, should be available through at through internet Wayback machine.
  9. I have also filtered nice Nirsoft's utilities package for NT4 to these which have GUI and starting on NT4 there some service / device magers too - serviwin and installedriverslist and myeventviewer- better Event explorer and zillion other nice utils, half of them for low level networking stuff (some too powerfull so there are false virus detections on modern windows 🙁).
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/75fmhn7yxwx0ib … mvssa0sfyz&dl=0
    Password: gustav
  10. Partition management Free tool there is Rannish partition Manager -text based for nice gui ones check text bellow.
  11. I had problems to make find Virtual CD driver utility for NT4, Daemons 3.47 not worked, solution is Imdisk 1.6.0 and it can do virtual hardisks (but not working for Virtual PC 4 .vhd) + floppies too as bonus.
    Winimage 8.1 - paid - 30 days trial are working fine, for Virtual PC *.vhds images. Daemon tools 3.17 are working fine. For ISO editations which is handy for import data to virtual machine, good old Winiso 3.8 is working.
  12. Virtualization - there is VirtualPC 4 for NT4, but i tried fun fan install Windows XP and its supper slow on my system and ram is not problem 512 MB and networking seem to be broken, maybe different Intel NIC driver would help or it dislike my Broadcom Gigabit NIC controller driver. I see somethere that Virtual PC 5.1 can work (Proven, seems faster and max mem is increased from 512 to 1024 MB), also Vmware workstation 1.0- 4.5 is working (its not working on Win98 at all), but at least on machine (P4 Based Xeon + Geforce 2 MX, 3GB), its super slow in NT4, i installed the same version under XP and virtuals speed is fine, so its VMware under NT4 issue. It seems that problem is 2D GUI rendering, machine is booting quite fast, probably other effect if DirectX NT4 problems..
  13. Registry autobackup after every boot - https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/erunt.html it saved my skin more than once, when i was in situation of not booting even to safe mode, but when machine crashed through loading of start up items, i had some problem to load NT registry hives from other OSes. NT registry seems not compatible with tools which are tried.
  14. System diagnostics - SIV is great for all OS versions - http://rh-software.com/ (on some machine its bluesreening), HWinfo32 is still working, old Everest Home 2.20 freeversion from 2008 is working, Aida64 at least version 5 is working (paid,trial).
  15. Uninstalling - Zsoft Uninstaller - ist working.
  16. Retrocomputing NT4 archive - good start for drivers and basic programs - https://www.retro-computing.com/Archives/show … NT40&filter=All
  17. Synergy 1 vintage its working for sharing mouse and keyboard with modern machines
  18. Remote access Tight VNC tightvnc-1.3.10 is working, on client side you can use UltraVNC on modern Windows. You can install Windows remote desktop client, but there is not server, unless you are using Terminal Server special editions, which have probably some issues, it need special hotfixes etc
  19. FPS monitorin - At least with Nvidia drivers and there versions 12.20; 29.42 and 77.72, are Fraps 1.8 a Fraps 1.9 Working for OpenGL and some software renders, D3D support situation is still unclear. Fraps 1.9 is complaining about DirectInput component version of DirectX, it needs Direct 7 or newer even on Windows 9x, but its probably just to make hotkeys part working.
  20. Nvidia NT drivers collection - Win9x or Win 2000/XP drivers are not working for NT, even some download sites claims opposite:
    Re: VOGONS Driver Library
  21. Glide to OpenGL wrappers-- testing package , not proven, we need research if any of these wrappers works..
  22. Here (in attachment) is Sysinternals suite for NT4 package, its originated from 2006 package and after i added some compatible utils from 2008. There could be still much newer versions of some utilities working win NT4, but i would take a lot of time to test all versions of all utils, this is just quick job.
    Password: gustav
  23. Keyboard and mouse sharing - Synergy Vintage on NT4 + Synergy 1 on modern OS, Windows 10 proven included - i dunno what is price now, but i bought it for 10 bucks. Issues - long key press is not recognized, so, you have to tap for Arrow keys, backspace and Delete instead of holping keys.. Maybe there is version of Synergy 1, which has not this issue, i contacted support, they are aware of this bug, but they are not willing to fix it.
  24. Live NT partition backup - Archronis Trueimage 8 - is working, others tools where causing bluescreens during live backuping, scheduled backups are proven too.
  25. Advanced partition with nice GUI - Forgot broken Partition Magic 8 - it does not understand complex partitioning with modern OSes, Linux, extended volumes and bigger HDD. Acronis Partition Expert 8/2003 + Disk director 9 are running fine, same as paragon partition manager 9.
  26. Great OpenGL - diagnostictic and testing / utility benchmark OpenGL extension viewer also called GLview :
    I dont understand why, everybody are still using Glinfo, when exist something like OpenGL extension viewer 2.1.8, it has exactly what i was calling and looking for:
    - nice list of every supported / unsupported OpenGL extension/ function by OpenGL 1.x standard, included some niche per vendor and CAD / Autodesk nitches, even nine % support of them, lost of details about them, test/benchmark for every OpenGL version, registry OpenGL device list, every supported Pixel format and more.
    Re: Windows NT4 2024+ setup and summary + WIP overview
  27. Universal ATA driver for faster disc operations - https://alter.org.ua/en/soft/win/uni_ata/uni_ata.php , some details about ATA DMA in Windows NT - http://www.benchtest.com/nt_udma1.html + https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/1998/11/udma/
  28. NT drivers uninstaller from NVhardpage package - works at least for videocards drivers and creative drivers and can show which files are related to which driver
Last edited by ruthan on 2025-04-20, 05:31. Edited 78 times in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 1 of 52, by maxtherabbit

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NT3 is definitely real

Reply 2 of 52, by Robbbert

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I've heard of NT 3.1, and seen 3.5 (once). I believe the numbering was simply following on from Windows 3.1

The only time I saw 3.5 was in the IT dept at work. I was told that it was very stable and would never crash or freeze. Of course, at that very moment, it froze. The UI looked like that used in Windows 3.1 .

Later we used 4.0, before progressing to Windows 2000.

DirectX 5 is on my machines, I think maybe 6 might work too.

So, what's not there by default?

- No FAT32 support - but the Sys Internals package works well.

- No included defragger. Someone (I forgot who) made a commercial product to overcome this. Microsoft bought them out, and so the defragger was included in W2K and XP.

- No support for scroll wheels but it can be added.

- No support for USB in any form but USB stick support can be added. With the FAT32 support added, FAT32 sticks can work too.

- No device manager, and no detection of hardware. Not even a central place to manage hardware. You had to work out what you added, and then find which applet was used for that particular hardware and install the driver yourself and hope it worked.

- Haven't tried it, but since Windows 95 doesn't support USB mouse/keyboard (and I could never get it working), I assume NT won't either.

Reply 3 of 52, by ruthan

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That DirectX support thing seems to be a bit complicated:

Regarding of this:
-https://msfn.org/board/topic/93903-directx-5-nt4-beta/ and http://www.win3x.org/win3board/viewtopic.php? … =17703&view=min
Of was called DirectX5 NT beta, so far im not sure if it was officialy released for users, or its only for developers and 3D / animators modeling + some codecs as i claimed and read elsewhere.
- That DirectX 6/6.1 installing seems to be purely unofficial hacking and using some libraries from WIndows 2000 - see https://www.compatdb.org/forums/topic/12447-d … ctx-6-for-nt-4/
- There is also info that Direct3D somehow working, but its limited, that not contradict to lines above.
- when i saw DirectX 5 unofficial on banshee drivers page a not even looked or tried to install official version of 5 / 6 / 6.1 ..
- If there was official package i assume that it would be much easier to get, such things are usually easy to find.

I installed this package:
https://mega.nz/file/AcBTFYba#IzxtxiRmQsToZM9 … TaZSAJsUHz7ymn8
If you have something better let me know, i got it on some 3Dfx Banshee site if my memory serves.

What is important is that i was getting these Direct input errors from a quite a lot of games, i have to check if made some compatibility notes or not, im now at main lair, but they were some common suspects.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 4 of 52, by fosterwj03

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Windows NT 4 has limited support for ISA plug and play. The card needs to properly support the standard and come with NT drivers. The Sound Blaster 16 PnP (as well as the AWE32 and Sb32 PnP) are examples. ISA PnP is not enabled during installation. It has to be installed from the Win NT CD after installation.

You can get third party USB support for NT4, but I find it only works correctly with true UHCI (USB 1.1) controllers such as those from Intel and Via. The driver stack supports mice, keyboards, storage devices, and a few select peripherals.

Reply 5 of 52, by VivienM

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Robbbert wrote on 2024-12-09, 00:11:

- No included defragger. Someone (I forgot who) made a commercial product to overcome this. Microsoft bought them out, and so the defragger was included in W2K and XP.

Diskeeper by Executive Software, I think was the name of the company, but... Microsoft definitely didn't buy them out, though they may have licensed a more basic version of it (kinda like what they did with HyperTerminal in Win95). Diskeeper was still available as a standalone commercial program into the early 2000s... and in fact according to Wikipedia last version was in 2020.

Reply 6 of 52, by wierd_w

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NT4 is a thing I drove for quite a while!

It *can* drive up to DX5. It was a buggy prerelease version of DX5, but it CAN do minimal D3D with it.

OpenGL titles use the OpenGL ICD, which is supplied by the driver for your video card. They work fine on NT4.

Similar with Glide API titles.

SystemShock 2 will work if you give the installer the /lgntforce switch.

Win2k is all around better though.

For a defragmenter, use the free version of ultradefrag.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/ultradefrag/

Reply 7 of 52, by Robbbert

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All this talk has made me drag out one of my NT4 machines and see for myself.

And, seems I stand corrected. I plugged in a USB mouse and a keyboard, and they worked straight away.

Unlike other OS's, the machine won't switch off when told to shut down. It just says you can turn it off now.

It has Microsoft Space Cadet installed, like on every one of my machines.

Although all my NT images have DirectX, this one is the only one that also has dxdiag, and it says it is version 6. The others says the file version is 4.0, but I don't think that is the answer. I'll need to copy dxdiag to them and see what it says.

The next thing, I suppose, is to try out some games and see what happens. Is there a recommended list of games that should/might possibly work on NT4?

Reply 8 of 52, by chinny22

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I did a post for NT 3.51's 25th birthday, although my project of a period correct Server/workstation setup stalled.
NT3.51 Just turned 25 Today!

I had a similar project with NT4, although that also ended when the cap plague finally killed my dual socket Dell workstation I was using.

I agree Windows 2000, makes for a really good gaming OS. NT4 doesn't although back in the late 90's I'd keep a close eye on this site to see which games would work.
https://www.ntcompatible.com/compatibility/

A slight correction is NT4 Workstation only supports 2 CPU's, at least officially.
And just like Windows 2000 it doesn't understand CPU's with more then 1 core, although I actually like this fact and use it to "cheat" to max out the CPU count of my server builds.

Maybe because of its lack of gaming therefor a "serious" OS, or maybe because it was the first NT version I used but I have a soft spot for NT4, it's not user friendly or very useful in this day and age but I enjoy playing with server. It predates Device Manager, Active directory, and other things that became standard Microsoft ways of doing things even up till today.

Reply 10 of 52, by Robbbert

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Tried some games. In each case, if it offered to install a version of DirectX i said not to.

- Microsoft Pinball Arcade - according to the readme it needs DX6 - game installed and runs perfectly fine.

- Deus Ex - needs DX7, but you can install it without DX7, and it offers a software renderer, and it works.

- Hitman - also needs DX7, but again I installed the game without DX7. Then I chose the OpenGL renderer, and it works

- Alien vs Predator - needs DX6, game installed ok but refused to start (no message).

- Heretic II - runs fine

So I think that NT4 can most likely run quite a range of Windows-based games.

Reply 11 of 52, by ruthan

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Thanks all inputs i updated first post accordingly and will do it, based on new inputs, to make it guide and overview paper all in one.

Some additional comments / questions.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-12-09, 03:52:

It *can* drive up to DX5. It was a buggy prerelease version of DX5, but it CAN do minimal D3D with it.

Can you give as more details, on which cards it is working and what are these DX5 games, test demos, benchmarks with DX5 D3D which are running on NT4?

chinny22 wrote on 2024-12-09, 04:38:

And just like Windows 2000 it doesn't understand CPU's with more then 1 core, although I actually like this fact and use it to "cheat" to max out the CPU count of my server builds.

I have to test it, if really you have to set multiple physical cpus in VMware to make it working. Some hack for multicore to make it working on modern HW would be handly. Also im not sure, if Virtualbox is emulation multiple cpu sockets, or just multi core cpus.. Im quite sure than Qemu can emulate both.

Robbbert wrote on 2024-12-09, 06:10:

Unfortunately I have very few of these games, as my collection is mainly from the DOS era.

Well is not the problem, i made package ~200(there was 325 pack but its too big for free mega account) most important Windows9x game demos, 6 years ago. Lots of them should work with NT too.
Re: VOGONS Driver Library , first part is also here: https://archive.org/details/win-98-games-a-d.-7z if you asked for password its: gustav

Robbbert wrote on 2024-12-09, 04:04:

Although all my NT images have DirectX, this one is the only one that also has dxdiag, and it says it is version 6. The others says the file version is 4.0, but I don't think that is the answer. I'll need to copy dxdiag to them and see what it says.

Dxdiag would be very hand, it was not in my DirectX package for sure. What DirectX 6 installer you used some generic for Win9x or some special one?

Some automatic shutdown utility would be handy + also utility to avoid to need to press CRTL+ALT+DEL to open logon window, i tried some tuporial, but it never worked for me, i only managed to make working automatic logon (TweakUI), which is not nice, because there is not basic password protection.. Yeah, i know you can just reset password, open files in another OS etc.. I tried some reg hacks, but it never worked for me.

Funny thing is that i guess that all these servers run without defrag fine for years, i never was defrag maniac a it seems that defragment was overprices back in days..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 12 of 52, by chinny22

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ruthan wrote on 2024-12-09, 14:27:
chinny22 wrote on 2024-12-09, 04:38:

And just like Windows 2000 it doesn't understand CPU's with more then 1 core, although I actually like this fact and use it to "cheat" to max out the CPU count of my server builds.

I have to test it, if really you have to set multiple physical cpus in VMware to make it working. Some hack for multicore to make it working on modern HW would be handly. Also im not sure, if Virtualbox is emulation multiple cpu sockets, or just multi core cpus.. Im quite sure than Qemu can emulate both.

I doubt it really matters for just messing around.
It was more of an issue back when installing on P4 with HT for proper work, if the task then went to run on the virtual core performance was terrible.
But modern CPU's are so overpowered for NT4 or even 2k its not going to matter now, maybe not the most efficient but performance wise your not going to really notice.

Reply 13 of 52, by ElectroSoldier

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Nice little write up that, I thought I was the only one left using NT4.

Good enough for a sticky I would have thought 😀

Reply 14 of 52, by auron

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there are some titles like heroes of might and magic 3 and diablo 2 that claim NT4 support on the first release box along with supposedly requiring directx 6 or 6.1. i recall that at least for homm3 complete you really can't go below that on 9x, so the question is whether some later patches/addons for those games just increased the requirements, or whether the official 3.0a in NT4 is really able to do more than the 95 equivalent. there are also 2D titles like imperialism 1/2 that do not claim any NT4 support on the box.

as for the dx5/6 hacks, that's yet another story, i think there needs to be a clear distinction between using those or just the official 3.0a. speaking of hacks, there is apparently also a driver hack to use SSE CPUs on NT4.

Reply 15 of 52, by fosterwj03

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A Soft Power Off HAL exists for NT4 that provides full shutdown on ATX-based systems, but it's fiddly with which boards it will work. You just need to replace the HAL.DLL for uniprocessor or multiprocessor depending on your system.

Here's a link to an article describing the installation process and files you'll need:

https://www.zx.net.nz/archives/notes/N00002/

Reply 16 of 52, by fosterwj03

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You don't need a hack to get NT 4 (or 3.5x for that matter) working with modern multicore CPUs. You do need a motherboard BIOS compatible with the MPS standard and at least Service Pack 3. Omores' Youtube videos explain the MPS issue.

My NT4 retro rocket has a Core i7-2600k, 4GB RAM, Intel Q67 motherboard, Via-based PCIE USB 1.1/2.0, a PCI RTL8139 network card, Sound Blaster Live! Value, and a PCIE GeForce 6800 GS. I use NT4 Server which recognizes all four physical cores (NT 4 and earlier can't support hyperthreading due to a requirement to support ACPI). Works great when I install NT4 Server with SP6 streamlined into the installation CD.

I've run NT4 on my Xeon 1275v2 (4-core Ivy Bridge) and B75 chipset as well, but the GeForce 6800 GS drivers crash that configuration for some reason.

Reply 17 of 52, by fosterwj03

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Oh, and you can add MDK2, Jedi Knight 2, Unreal Tournament, and Return to Castle Wolfenstein to your list of 3D accelerated games working under NT4. All of these games use OpenGL to render the game (Unreal Tournament also works quite well with software rendering in a window on really fast systems on NT 4 and 3.5x).

Reply 18 of 52, by Matrix359

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hello,
interesting that someone here has the same project at almost the same time, I revised my Windows NT 4 unattend setup this week and even got a DX5/6 hybrid to work, but I still have to do hardware tests.

The attachment Zwischenablage01.jpg is no longer available

There is a very simple reg file for logging in, I can upload it if that's OK, for switching off I still think HP Softpowerdown is the best, it works for me with all ACPI devices. For shutting down there is a Shutdown.exe for NT, which is comparable to the one from XP, but has a different syntax.

about updates:
there is also Post Sp6, similar to the update rollout of 2k sp4 and you can even install the OSP from Office XP, which brings some new files with it. VC++ 05/08/10 are also no problem if you adapt the MSI. MSXML 2,4 and 6 also work (6 with adapted MSI, the 3 causes msiexec to crash, for whatever reason). .net 3.5 for 95 has worked for me on NT4 without any problems so far, fat32 from winternals is also recommended, works wonderfully with the inside out USB drivers for USB sticks.

and for a modern Explorer, simply install Internet Explorer 4 active setup before ie6, and you'll have the modern Explorer like 98/2k. You can also use the 9x compatible version of cmd.exe from some 2k SDK, no idea which one it was exactly.

The attachment Zwischenablage02.jpg is no longer available

O&O Defrag 4 should also work for defragmentation, but I can't find a download for it anymore.

there are also tons of other software and runtimes that run on nt and are included in my unattend setup, but there's too much to list them all individually.

What I would be very interested in is the DXDIAG which is supposed to run under NT 4.

and as soon as I am finished with NT4, I will continue with NT 3.51, I hope I can get DirectX to work on NT 3.51 and I haven't (completely) given up on the USB drivers either, the soft powerdown also runs under NT 3.51.

Reply 19 of 52, by elszgensa

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Matrix359 wrote on 2024-12-13, 16:43:

VC++ 05/08/10 [and MSXML 2,4 and 6] are also no problem if you adapt the MSI.

Would you mind elaborating on that a bit? I've always seen MSIs as a bit of an unfortunate black box. Can't even extract the raw files because they end up with the naming being all wrong and zero subdirectories...